From 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Fri Sep 01 07:22:44 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GJ76i-0002Ff-DW for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 01 Sep 2006 07:22:44 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr ([163.239.23.36]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GJ76g-0004iT-P5 for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 01 Sep 2006 07:22:44 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (eeca16.sogang.ac.kr [127.0.0.1]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k81CWoIC009458; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 21:32:51 +0900 Received: from mailout3.samsung.com (mailout3.samsung.com [203.254.224.33]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k81CWmIB009455 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 21:32:48 +0900 Received: from ep_mmp1 (mailout3.samsung.com [203.254.224.33]) by mailout3.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 2 (built Jul 14 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J4W000R1VFL7G@mailout3.samsung.com> for 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr; Fri, 01 Sep 2006 20:18:57 +0900 (KST) Received: from your655e9d6f61 ([168.219.198.109])14 2004)) 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr; Fri, 01 Sep 2006 20:18:57 +0900 (KST) Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 20:18:38 +0900 From: Soohong Daniel Park To: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Message-id: <01d001c6cdb8$5fd1f670$6dc6dba8@your655e9d6f61> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ks_c_5601-1987 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Subject: [16ng] 2nd Call for Comment on PMP definition in Section 2.2 of RFC2461 X-BeenThere: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks <16ng.eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 0a7aa2e6e558383d84476dc338324fab [adding our AD into CC list] Folks, This is a 2nd call for comment on the PMP link definition in RFC 2461, Section 2.2 in accordance with 16 link to guage 16ng folks thought. Opinion 1: "point-to-point" described in Section 2.2 is enough for 16ng IPv6 solution space ? "point-to-point - a link that connects exactly two interfaces. A point-to-point link is assumed to have multicast capability and have a link-local address." Opinion 2: "point-to-multipoint must be newly illustrated in Section 2.2 ? Which is your preference ? Daniel (Soohong Daniel Park) Mobile Convergence Laboratory, SAMSUNG Electronics. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Soohong Daniel Park" To: <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 3:33 PM Subject: [16ng] PMP definition in Section 2.2 of RFC2461 > So far, no PMP link are defined in RFC 2461, Section 2.2. > In case of IEEE 802.16, PMP is a mandatory topology. > Obviously, 16ng solution is based on PMP link type. > > Do we need a PMP definition in Section 2.2 of RFC2461 ? > > For example; > ================================================ > point-to-multipoint > - a link consists of a single interface communicating > directly with more than one interface. > ================================================ > > I know the status of 2461bis is a AD Evaluation, so if > allowed, we should tackle the PMP link definition on the bis. > > Comments ? > > Daniel (Soohong Daniel Park) > Mobile Convergence Laboratory, SAMSUNG Electronics. > _______________________________________________ > 16ng mailing list > 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr > http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng > _______________________________________________ 16ng mailing list 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng From 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Fri Sep 01 09:54:11 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GJ9TH-0001PC-5b for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 01 Sep 2006 09:54:11 -0400 Received: from stsc1260-eth-s1-s1p1-vip.va.neustar.com ([156.154.16.129] helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GJ6yY-0003ag-HZ for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 01 Sep 2006 07:14:18 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr ([163.239.23.36]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GJ6pd-000706-7u for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 01 Sep 2006 07:05:10 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (eeca16.sogang.ac.kr [127.0.0.1]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k81CIFIC009385; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 21:18:21 +0900 Received: from mailout1.samsung.com (mailout1.samsung.com [203.254.224.24]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k81CIEIB009382 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 21:18:14 +0900 Received: from ep_mmp2 (mailout1.samsung.com [203.254.224.24]) by mailout1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 2 (built Jul 14 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J4W005WQURAG1@mailout1.samsung.com> for 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr; Fri, 01 Sep 2006 20:04:22 +0900 (KST) Received: from your655e9d6f61 ([168.219.198.109]) by mmp2.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTPA id <0J4W00I00URA1U@mmp2.samsung.com> for 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr; Fri, 01 Sep 2006 20:04:22 +0900 (KST) Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 20:04:04 +0900 From: Soohong Daniel Park To: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Message-id: <01b601c6cdb6$56a98510$6dc6dba8@your655e9d6f61> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ks_c_5601-1987 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <01fa01c6c0fd$d8868030$6dc6dba8@your655e9d6f61> Subject: [16ng] 2nd Call For Comment on PMP definition in Section 2.2 of RFC2461 X-BeenThere: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks <16ng.eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Scan-Signature: f607d15ccc2bc4eaf3ade8ffa8af02a0 [adding our AD into CC list] Folks, This is a 2nd call for comment on the PMP link definition in RFC 2461, Section 2.2 in accordance with 16 link to guage 16ng folks thought. Opinion 1: "point-to-point" described in Section 2.2 is enough for 16ng IPv6 solution space ? "point-to-point - a link that connects exactly two interfaces. A point-to-point link is assumed to have multicast capability and have a link-local address." Opinion 2: "point-to-multipoint must be newly illustrated in Section 2.2 ? Which is your preference ? Daniel (Soohong Daniel Park) Mobile Convergence Laboratory, SAMSUNG Electronics. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Soohong Daniel Park" To: <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 3:33 PM Subject: [16ng] PMP definition in Section 2.2 of RFC2461 > So far, no PMP link are defined in RFC 2461, Section 2.2. > In case of IEEE 802.16, PMP is a mandatory topology. > Obviously, 16ng solution is based on PMP link type. > > Do we need a PMP definition in Section 2.2 of RFC2461 ? > > For example; > ================================================ > point-to-multipoint > - a link consists of a single interface communicating > directly with more than one interface. > ================================================ > > I know the status of 2461bis is a AD Evaluation, so if > allowed, we should tackle the PMP link definition on the bis. > > Comments ? > > Daniel (Soohong Daniel Park) > Mobile Convergence Laboratory, SAMSUNG Electronics. > _______________________________________________ > 16ng mailing list > 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr > http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng > > _______________________________________________ 16ng mailing list 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng From 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Fri Sep 01 11:31:05 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GJAz3-0002ek-ST for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 01 Sep 2006 11:31:05 -0400 Received: from stsc1260-eth-s1-s1p1-vip.va.neustar.com ([156.154.16.129] helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GJAQ7-0000y3-Ax for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 01 Sep 2006 10:54:59 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr ([163.239.23.36]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GJAGH-0003jO-LA for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 01 Sep 2006 10:44:51 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (eeca16.sogang.ac.kr [127.0.0.1]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k81Fw9IC009878; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 00:58:13 +0900 Received: from e2.ny.us.ibm.com (e2.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.142]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k81FvuIB009875 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 00:58:07 +0900 Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e2.ny.us.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k81Ei19j014625 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 10:44:01 -0400 Received: from d01av04.pok.ibm.com (d01av04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.64]) k81Ei1iB270060 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 10:44:02 -0400 Received: from d01av04.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) k81Ei0B2025042 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 10:44:01 -0400 Received: from rotala.raleigh.ibm.com (rotala.raleigh.ibm.com [9.27.151.17]) k81Ei03V024866; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 10:44:00 -0400 Received: from rotala.raleigh.ibm.com (rotala.raleigh.ibm.com [127.0.0.1]) k81Ehsp2022490; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 10:43:55 -0400 Message-Id: <200609011443.k81Ehsp2022490@rotala.raleigh.ibm.com> To: Soohong Daniel Park Subject: Re: [16ng] 2nd Call For Comment on PMP definition in Section 2.2 of RFC2461 In-reply-to: <01b601c6cdb6$56a98510$6dc6dba8@your655e9d6f61> References: <01fa01c6c0fd$d8868030$6dc6dba8@your655e9d6f61> <01b601c6cdb6$56a98510$6dc6dba8@your655e9d6f61> Comments: In-reply-to Soohong Daniel Park message dated "Fri, 01 Sep 2006 20:04:04 +0900." Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 10:43:54 -0400 From: Thomas Narten cc: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-BeenThere: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks <16ng.eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 In order to answer this question, I would like to ask "what problem needs fixing"? Adding a definition for PMP to the ND spec (and then having that spec make absolutely no use of the definition) seems pretty useless and would solve no problem I can think of. Is that what you are asking about? Or is it something else? If 16ng needs to define PMP, why can't it just do so itself in the documents it uses? Thomas _______________________________________________ 16ng mailing list 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng From 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Fri Sep 01 15:01:18 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GJEGU-0006OZ-8o for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 01 Sep 2006 15:01:18 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr ([163.239.23.36]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GJEGO-0003HX-Ih for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 01 Sep 2006 15:01:18 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (eeca16.sogang.ac.kr [127.0.0.1]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k81KEeIC010836; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 05:14:44 +0900 Received: from vms046pub.verizon.net (vms046pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.46]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k81KEcIB010833 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 05:14:39 +0900 Received: from vms061.mailsrvcs.net ([192.168.1.2]) by vms046.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPA id <0J4X00F68GSVNVX0@vms046.mailsrvcs.net> for 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr; Fri, 01 Sep 2006 14:00:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 129.55.200.20 ([129.55.200.20]) by vms061.mailsrvcs.net (Verizon Webmail) with HTTP; Fri, 01 Sep 2006 14:00:31 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 14:00:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Subject: Re: [16ng] 2nd Call For Comment on PMP definition in Section 2.2 of RFC2461 X-Originating-IP: [129.55.200.20] To: Soohong Daniel Park , 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Message-id: <4740867.844341157137231776.JavaMail.root@vms061.mailsrvcs.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks <16ng.eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Hi Daniel/all, [...] >Folks, > >This is a 2nd call for comment on the PMP link definition >in RFC 2461, Section 2.2 in accordance with 16 link to >guage 16ng folks thought. > >Opinion 1: "point-to-point" described in Section 2.2 >is enough for 16ng IPv6 solution space ? > >"point-to-point - a link that connects exactly two interfaces. >A point-to-point link is assumed to have multicast capability My understanding is that this assumption is for bi-directional multicast capability (which IEEE 802.16e doesn't have). >and have a link-local address." > >Opinion 2: "point-to-multipoint must be newly illustrated >in Section 2.2 ? > >Which is your preference ? My preference is opinion 2. > >Daniel (Soohong Daniel Park) >Mobile Convergence Laboratory, SAMSUNG Electronics. Best Regards, Tim Rom 8:28 [...] _______________________________________________ 16ng mailing list 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng From 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Tue Sep 05 23:42:49 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GKoJN-0000pM-DA for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 05 Sep 2006 23:42:49 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr ([163.239.23.36]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GKoJI-0002qg-1Y for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 05 Sep 2006 23:42:49 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (eeca16.sogang.ac.kr [127.0.0.1]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k864usIC012223; Wed, 6 Sep 2006 13:56:58 +0900 Received: from mailout3.samsung.com (mailout3.samsung.com [203.254.224.33]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k864uqIB012220 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Wed, 6 Sep 2006 13:56:52 +0900 Received: from ep_mmp2 (mailout3.samsung.com [203.254.224.33]) by mailout3.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 2 (built Jul 14 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J55008G4JM61W@mailout3.samsung.com> for 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr; Wed, 06 Sep 2006 12:42:06 +0900 (KST) Received: from your655e9d6f61 ([168.219.198.109]) by mmp2.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTPA id <0J5500438JM6CJ@mmp2.samsung.com> for 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr; Wed, 06 Sep 2006 12:42:06 +0900 (KST) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 12:41:58 +0900 From: Soohong Daniel Park To: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Message-id: <007e01c6ece7$349665b0$6dc6dba8@your655e9d6f61> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ks_c_5601-1987 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Subject: [16ng] 16ng interim - agenda X-BeenThere: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks <16ng.eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: d8ae4fd88fcaf47c1a71c804d04f413d Here is our preliminary agenda for the 16ng interim next week. ======================================== IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks Working Group (16ng) o 1st Interim - Mannheim, Gernamy o September, 12nd - 13rd AGENDA o 12nd, Tuesday 1000 - 1030 Coffee break & socializing 1030 - 1230 Opening session - Welcome chairs - Agenda bashing chairs - WG status and milestone review chairs - Informative reports + WiMAX IPv6 activity TBD + WiBro IPv6 activity TBD + IEEE 802.16 activity TBD + others ? - IPv6 deployment scenario v6ops document review Myungki Shin - IPv6 subnet model design team report Syam Madanapalli 1230 - 1330 Lunch 1330 - 1530 Technical session I - IPv6 subnet model design team report Syam Madanapalli 1530 - 1600 Coffee break 1600 - 1800 Technical session II - IPv6 solution discussion - I + IPv6 shared prefix model Syam Madanapalli + IPv6 unique prefix model TBD + IPv6 over Ethernet CS Max Riegel 1900 - 2200 Social o 13rd, Wednesday 0900 - 1200 Technical session III - IPv6 solution discussion - II 1200 - 1300 Lunch 1300 - 1430 Technical session IV - IPv6 solution discussion - III - Relevant discussion or presentation if any 1430 - 1500 Coffee break 1500 - 1600 Closing session - Wrap-up chairs + Recommendation on subnet model for IPv6 CS chairs + Next step chairs ======================================== Daniel (Soohong Daniel Park) Mobile Convergence Laboratory, SAMSUNG Electronics. _______________________________________________ 16ng mailing list 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng From 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Wed Sep 06 06:29:11 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GKued-0003J3-U7 for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Sep 2006 06:29:11 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr ([163.239.23.36]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GKuec-0004t9-1v for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Sep 2006 06:29:11 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (eeca16.sogang.ac.kr [127.0.0.1]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k86BhLIC013509; Wed, 6 Sep 2006 20:43:24 +0900 Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k86BhIIB013506 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Wed, 6 Sep 2006 20:43:20 +0900 Received: from p130.piuha.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72155898E9; Wed, 6 Sep 2006 13:28:26 +0300 (EEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FAAC8988B; Wed, 6 Sep 2006 13:28:26 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <44FEA2C3.4090508@piuha.net> Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 13:28:19 +0300 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.8 (X11/20060725) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Soohong Daniel Park References: <01d001c6cdb8$5fd1f670$6dc6dba8@your655e9d6f61> In-Reply-To: <01d001c6cdb8$5fd1f670$6dc6dba8@your655e9d6f61> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=EUC-KR Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP cc: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Subject: [16ng] Re: 2nd Call for Comment on PMP definition in Section 2.2 of RFC2461 X-BeenThere: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks <16ng.eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a The 16ng group is chartered to define how IP is run over 802.16 links. This includes defining how ND works for such links. This work includes not only picking the right link type but also substantial work on protocol details. We could add new link types under Section 2.2 in RFC2461bis, but that by itself does not answer how ND is run on such links. And we should not delay that document to add such details. You, the 16ng WG, are chartered to do that work in your documents. I would recommend focusing on your "IP over 802.16" documents. These documents should state what link type expectation they have, what subnet model is employed, and all the protocol details for ND and everything else that is needed. Once your work is complete these documents become the normative way to run IP and ND for 802.16. If you needed to use a link type not listed in 2461bis that's fine. But I want to see the whole solution in your documents. --Jari _______________________________________________ 16ng mailing list 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng From 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Wed Sep 06 09:57:38 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GKxuM-0003NN-79 for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Sep 2006 09:57:38 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr ([163.239.23.36]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GKxmm-00054y-3T for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Sep 2006 09:49:53 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (eeca16.sogang.ac.kr [127.0.0.1]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k86F3vIC013954; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 00:04:00 +0900 Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.203]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k86F3tIB013951 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 00:03:56 +0900 Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i11so1256315nzh for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Wed, 06 Sep 2006 06:49:03 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=FncuwS1ZjqlYvhUQkNra5rLeUJdLkXit0LGojhwcqkQR46l/WBb9LC/40zy0WJerKIh10jKg4DjkUfMsRJIoitaSQSNYMmF2Tfv8nSB2neg1tVtE4FMSs9B+KiVH4GFsPg9N7BJzCUL8V25rkx/L+bl0HX7IPpiBqKpz4XlkPLA= Received: by 10.35.119.11 with SMTP id w11mr14763194pym; Wed, 06 Sep 2006 06:49:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.10.9 with HTTP; Wed, 6 Sep 2006 06:49:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <10e14db20609060649i7bb5e7b2v767dfab60cdf2eb7@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 19:19:02 +0530 From: "Syam Madanapalli" To: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_4373_29540993.1157550542960" Subject: [16ng] Subnet Model Analysis for 16ng X-BeenThere: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks <16ng.eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 39821207e2a2cade5c69c89d23fb80ee ------=_Part_4373_29540993.1157550542960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi, We made some analysis of subnet models for IPv6, please review and comment. I have attached the text document with this mail as the draft has not been published yet. 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b2xvZ3kgdGhhdCBtYXkgYmUgcmVxdWlyZWQgdG8gaW1wbGVtZW50CiAgIHRoaXMgc3RhbmRhcmQu ICBQbGVhc2UgYWRkcmVzcyB0aGUgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gdG8gdGhlIElFVEYgYXQKICAgaWV0Zi1p cHJAaWV0Zi5vcmcuCgoKQWNrbm93bGVkZ21lbnQKCiAgIEZ1bmRpbmcgZm9yIHRoZSBSRkMgRWRp dG9yIGZ1bmN0aW9uIGlzIHByb3ZpZGVkIGJ5IHRoZSBJRVRGCiAgIEFkbWluaXN0cmF0aXZlIFN1 cHBvcnQgQWN0aXZpdHkgKElBU0EpLgoKCgoKCk1hZGFuYXBhbGxpICAgICAgICAgICAgICBFeHBp cmVzIE1hcmNoIDEwLCAyMDA3ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIFtQYWdlIDE3XQoMCgo= ------=_Part_4373_29540993.1157550542960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________ 16ng mailing list 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng ------=_Part_4373_29540993.1157550542960-- From 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Wed Sep 06 16:14:01 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GL3mb-0003WV-SN for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Sep 2006 16:14:01 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr ([163.239.23.36]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GL3ma-0004kt-6F for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Sep 2006 16:14:01 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (eeca16.sogang.ac.kr [127.0.0.1]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k86LRtIC015252; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 06:27:58 +0900 Received: from mail-red.research.att.com (mail-red.research.att.com [192.20.225.110]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k86LRqIB015249 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 06:27:53 +0900 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RE: [16ng] Subnet Model Analysis for 16ng Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 16:12:30 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <10e14db20609060649i7bb5e7b2v767dfab60cdf2eb7@mail.gmail.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [16ng] Subnet Model Analysis for 16ng Thread-Index: AcbRvKCbQ2INTK6VSWeX7aMVIms8pQALI3jA From: To: <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr id k86LRqIB015249 X-BeenThere: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks <16ng.eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 52f7a77164458f8c7b36b66787c853da A few questions On ... 3.3.3. Duplicate Address Detection Does adding something like "such as BS performaing relay DAD-like functions for MS under itself" make sense? Of course, it needs to be worked out somewhere like the shared prefix model, but I recall that some early systems do something similar and it has smaller scope, just for a BS instead of an AR. On.. 3.3.4.2. On-link Multicast Support & 3.3.4.5. Effect on Dormant Mode I wonder if it makes sense to consider that BS can potentially block broadcast/multicast with known purposes to MS that do not need it and deliver only to intended MS MAC unicast over the air. An 802.16 BS is already involved in many activities that require awareness of higher layer states beyond MAC (regrettably to some), so knowing necessary information may not be a big additional burden. Also, a BS needs and can act with only local information. Also IGMP/MLD snooping can be used for additional cases, as some ethernet switches already do. And finally, broadcast/multicast with unknown functions will have to be left to a policy and maybe subject to rate limits like many 802.11 implementations, where practical experiences to come will help guide the usage. I guess the common thing is that BS's are already very specialized nodes for 802.16, so I'd be inclined to limit 802.16 specifics to BS and not bother AR, even if there is some penalty in other aspects. (though I have not seen something that'd concern me too much yet.) If all or most of 802.16 specifics are handled at BS using only local knowledge, there will be even less interop issues. I apologize if I'm out of context, for I am not there at the meeting following the discussions. Bests. "J" Kim macsbug@research.att.com AT&T Labs - Research http://macsbug.googlepages.com/ -----Original Message----- From: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr [mailto:16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr] On Behalf Of Syam Madanapalli Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 9:49 AM To: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Subject: [16ng] Subnet Model Analysis for 16ng Hi, We made some analysis of subnet models for IPv6, please review and comment. I have attached the text document with this mail as the draft has not been published yet. Thanks, Syam _______________________________________________ 16ng mailing list 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng From 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Wed Sep 06 21:02:52 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GL8I8-0004iK-3g for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Sep 2006 21:02:52 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr ([163.239.23.36]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GL8I6-0002Sy-CM for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Sep 2006 21:02:52 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (eeca16.sogang.ac.kr [127.0.0.1]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k872HKIC016018; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 11:17:24 +0900 Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.226]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k872HHIB016015 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 11:17:18 +0900 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id t5so38772wxc for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Wed, 06 Sep 2006 18:02:20 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:organization:user-agent:x-accept-language:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=axltczw6PFKyvNErKPHl6uljZsLI0eySUvBWzgee0LmIZfuBpKQaT+2MLHq7WcNmODyCw9Z1SwQ0F8xny0SUJSqr4/xP763sR4JpGzSyMdRH88T966Jk/jLXGVw0O+zBsVjT8hk6HISyF71tl1MabqrgJGR47ObUZRp8zFVToe4= Received: by 10.70.69.2 with SMTP id r2mr180568wxa; Wed, 06 Sep 2006 18:02:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?129.254.112.125? ( [129.254.112.125]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 12sm131535wrl.2006.09.06.18.02.19; Wed, 06 Sep 2006 18:02:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <44FF6F95.9070802@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 10:02:13 +0900 From: Myung-Ki Shin Organization: ETRI User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: macsbug@research.att.com Subject: Re: [16ng] Subnet Model Analysis for 16ng References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-BeenThere: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: myungki.shin@gmail.com List-Id: IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks <16ng.eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 0fa76816851382eb71b0a882ccdc29ac Hi J, Thanks for your comments. Inline ... macsbug@research.att.com wrote: > A few questions > > On ... > 3.3.3. Duplicate Address Detection > > Does adding something like "such as BS performaing relay DAD-like > functions for MS under itself" make sense? Of course, it needs to be > worked out somewhere like the shared prefix model, but I recall that > some early systems do something similar and it has smaller scope, just > for a BS instead of an AR. I think there are several ways to implement the DAD optimization (e.g., relay DAD, proxy DAD, or some vendor-specifc functions). Also, BS, AR or both can perform that kind of fuctions for MS. In my understanding, the goal of this draft is to provides analysis and applicability of each subnet model. So, the isssue above can be discussed in solution documents for IPv6 CS and Eth-CS, respectively. > On.. > 3.3.4.2. On-link Multicast Support & 3.3.4.5. Effect on Dormant Mode > I wonder if it makes sense to consider that BS can potentially block > broadcast/multicast with known purposes to MS that do not need it and > deliver only to intended MS MAC unicast over the air. > An 802.16 BS is already involved in many activities that require > awareness of higher layer states beyond MAC (regrettably to some), so > knowing necessary information may not be a big additional burden. Also, > a BS needs and can act with only local information. > Also IGMP/MLD snooping can be used for additional cases, as some > ethernet switches already do. And finally, broadcast/multicast with > unknown functions will have to be left to a policy and maybe subject to > rate limits like many 802.11 implementations, where practical > experiences to come will help guide the usage. I know and I agree that this issue is very important for dormant mobile node. There are strong and weak points with this approach above. Also, sometimes it might be not specific to IPv6 solutions and morevover this may be a kind of BS implementation issues. > I guess the common thing is that BS's are already very specialized nodes > for 802.16, so I'd be inclined to limit 802.16 specifics to BS and not > bother AR, even if there is some penalty in other aspects. (though I > have not seen something that'd concern me too much yet.) If all or most > of 802.16 specifics are handled at BS using only local knowledge, there > will be even less interop issues. I wonder if we can define or discuss about BS and/or AR behaviors here, that is, omniscient AR and dummy BS vs. omniscient(?) BS and general AR, even if interop issues are important, of course. Thanks, Myung-Ki, ETRI > I apologize if I'm out of context, for I am not there at the meeting > following the discussions. > > Bests. > > "J" Kim > macsbug@research.att.com > AT&T Labs - Research > > http://macsbug.googlepages.com/ > _______________________________________________ 16ng mailing list 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng From 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Thu Sep 07 10:50:11 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GLLCl-0001Ik-Jm for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 10:50:11 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr ([163.239.23.36]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GLLCi-0000Kz-Vn for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 10:50:11 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (eeca16.sogang.ac.kr [127.0.0.1]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k87G45IC018155; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 01:04:10 +0900 Received: from smtp2.int-evry.fr (smtp2.int-evry.fr [157.159.10.45]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k87G41IB018152 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 01:04:03 +0900 Received: from lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr (lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr [157.159.103.217]) by smtp2.int-evry.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id C504E30058; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 16:48:50 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: [16ng] Subnet Model Analysis for 16ng From: Pars Mutaf To: Syam Madanapalli In-Reply-To: <10e14db20609060649i7bb5e7b2v767dfab60cdf2eb7@mail.gmail.com> References: <10e14db20609060649i7bb5e7b2v767dfab60cdf2eb7@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: INT Evry Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 16:42:41 +0200 Message-Id: <1157640161.14400.5.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.4.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-INT-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-INT-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-INT-MailScanner-MCPCheck: X-INT-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-MailScanner-From: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr cc: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-BeenThere: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr List-Id: IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks <16ng.eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Hi, Thanks to the contributors for this draft. I have a quick question. Have you decided that in 16ng: Subnet = paging area? Thanks, pars On Wed, 2006-09-06 at 19:19 +0530, Syam Madanapalli wrote: > Hi, > > We made some analysis of subnet models for IPv6, > please review and comment. > I have attached the text document with this mail as > the draft has not been published yet. > > Thanks, > Syam > _______________________________________________ > 16ng mailing list > 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr > http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng _______________________________________________ 16ng mailing list 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng From 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Thu Sep 07 11:17:13 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GLLcv-0001gF-OR for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 11:17:13 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr ([163.239.23.36]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GLLOY-0001Fr-3H for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 11:02:24 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (eeca16.sogang.ac.kr [127.0.0.1]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k87GHBIC018201; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 01:17:11 +0900 Received: from mail-red.research.att.com (mail-red.research.att.com [192.20.225.110]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k87GH8IB018194 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 01:17:08 +0900 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RE: [16ng] Subnet Model Analysis for 16ng Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 11:01:52 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <44FF6F95.9070802@gmail.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [16ng] Subnet Model Analysis for 16ng Thread-Index: AcbSGZ+9qAZu5BpxSwexUHZOSGkfkgAcWNag From: To: , <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr id k87GH8IB018194 X-BeenThere: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks <16ng.eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: a1852b4f554b02e7e4548cc7928acc1f Your comments appreciated... Although this thread is on the subnet model analysis, I guess I was commenting a bit broadly. Some comments.. "Also, BS, AR or both can perform that kind of functions for MS." >> Of course, but I'd prefer BS than AR, since BS only needs to defend MS under it which I believe is more realistic and of limited scope, given the way 802.16 works, while AR indeed needs to know everyone. In a similar spirit as "802.16 specifics is unavoidable at BS, so try not to rope in AR as well". "In my understanding, the goal of this draft is to provides analysis and applicability of each subnet model. " >> Agreed. However, any analysis is bound to imply some directions to solutions. It'd be very useful to indicate the desirable properties of potential solutions, whatever they may be. "There are strong and weak points with this approach above" >> I'd like to discuss that, online or offline if inappropriate for this thread. " this may be a kind of BS implementation issues" >> It may still be useful to put forth desirable properties, or best/recommended practices in some other docs. " omniscient AR and dummy BS vs. omniscient(?) BS and general AR" >> I think omniscient BS needs to be only omniscient about its own MS's, which is a relatively weak requirement, given how 802.16 works. Nonetheless, a full description of such spectrum of approaches is probably not needed in this doc, but may be something to keep in mind during the design stage. Byoung-Jo "J" Kim macsbug@research.att.com AT&T Labs - Research http://macsbug.googlepages.com/ -----Original Message----- From: Myung-Ki Shin [mailto:myungki.shin@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 9:02 PM To: Kim,Byoung-Jo J (J) Cc: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Subject: Re: [16ng] Subnet Model Analysis for 16ng Hi J, Thanks for your comments. Inline ... macsbug@research.att.com wrote: > A few questions > > On ... > 3.3.3. Duplicate Address Detection > > Does adding something like "such as BS performaing relay DAD-like > functions for MS under itself" make sense? Of course, it needs to be > worked out somewhere like the shared prefix model, but I recall that > some early systems do something similar and it has smaller scope, just > for a BS instead of an AR. I think there are several ways to implement the DAD optimization (e.g., relay DAD, proxy DAD, or some vendor-specifc functions). Also, BS, AR or both can perform that kind of fuctions for MS. In my understanding, the goal of this draft is to provides analysis and applicability of each subnet model. So, the isssue above can be discussed in solution documents for IPv6 CS and Eth-CS, respectively. > On.. > 3.3.4.2. On-link Multicast Support & 3.3.4.5. Effect on Dormant Mode > I wonder if it makes sense to consider that BS can potentially block > broadcast/multicast with known purposes to MS that do not need it and > deliver only to intended MS MAC unicast over the air. > An 802.16 BS is already involved in many activities that require > awareness of higher layer states beyond MAC (regrettably to some), so > knowing necessary information may not be a big additional burden. Also, > a BS needs and can act with only local information. > Also IGMP/MLD snooping can be used for additional cases, as some > ethernet switches already do. And finally, broadcast/multicast with > unknown functions will have to be left to a policy and maybe subject to > rate limits like many 802.11 implementations, where practical > experiences to come will help guide the usage. I know and I agree that this issue is very important for dormant mobile node. There are strong and weak points with this approach above. Also, sometimes it might be not specific to IPv6 solutions and morevover this may be a kind of BS implementation issues. > I guess the common thing is that BS's are already very specialized nodes > for 802.16, so I'd be inclined to limit 802.16 specifics to BS and not > bother AR, even if there is some penalty in other aspects. (though I > have not seen something that'd concern me too much yet.) If all or most > of 802.16 specifics are handled at BS using only local knowledge, there > will be even less interop issues. I wonder if we can define or discuss about BS and/or AR behaviors here, that is, omniscient AR and dummy BS vs. omniscient(?) BS and general AR, even if interop issues are important, of course. Thanks, Myung-Ki, ETRI > I apologize if I'm out of context, for I am not there at the meeting > following the discussions. > > Bests. > > "J" Kim > macsbug@research.att.com > AT&T Labs - Research > > http://macsbug.googlepages.com/ > _______________________________________________ 16ng mailing list 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng From 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Thu Sep 07 11:17:14 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GLLcw-0001mR-Tx for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 11:17:14 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr ([163.239.23.36]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GLLOP-0001F5-Oq for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 11:02:16 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (eeca16.sogang.ac.kr [127.0.0.1]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k87GH1IC018189; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 01:17:05 +0900 Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.195]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k87GGwIB018186 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 01:16:59 +0900 Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i11so114487nzh for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 08:01:55 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=iGPCcW2ak6wiYdZzWDncWExecNKIEDQxbiXY2v9LONFgEtr3uE84erJAXNVxrwZSie0SK12+tsEeDWFowI7+D1We4NjXlCW7Wfp7GUTcZXobU0GZexoLLP+On4f3eb7Ng+Q7FaiThwAx2odnykApGtjYcqW79m9lm4Hj6R7ynDA= Received: by 10.35.52.18 with SMTP id e18mr875188pyk; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 08:01:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.10.9 with HTTP; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 08:01:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <10e14db20609070801m17bd4e04r216aba3295a4e26e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 20:31:54 +0530 From: "Syam Madanapalli" To: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr Subject: Re: [16ng] Subnet Model Analysis for 16ng In-Reply-To: <1157640161.14400.5.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <10e14db20609060649i7bb5e7b2v767dfab60cdf2eb7@mail.gmail.com> <1157640161.14400.5.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> cc: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-BeenThere: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks <16ng.eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 Hi Pars, On 9/7/06, Pars Mutaf wrote: > Hi, > > Thanks to the contributors for this draft. > I have a quick question. Have you decided > that in 16ng: > > Subnet = paging area? No. And do you see any reason to tie these two things together? If point-to-point subnet model is considered, there will be essentially only one node in the paging area if subnet = paging area, which I think is not effective way of doing the paging. Thanks, Syam > > > Thanks, > pars > > > On Wed, 2006-09-06 at 19:19 +0530, Syam Madanapalli wrote: > > Hi, > > > > We made some analysis of subnet models for IPv6, > > please review and comment. > > I have attached the text document with this mail as > > the draft has not been published yet. > > > > Thanks, > > Syam > > _______________________________________________ > > 16ng mailing list > > 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr > > http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng > > _______________________________________________ 16ng mailing list 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng From 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Thu Sep 07 11:36:31 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GLLvb-0000on-Hm for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 11:36:31 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr ([163.239.23.36]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GLLlT-0004vV-LB for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 11:26:05 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (eeca16.sogang.ac.kr [127.0.0.1]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k87GeFIC018256; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 01:40:17 +0900 Received: from smtp2.int-evry.fr (smtp2.int-evry.fr [157.159.10.45]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k87GeCIB018253 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 01:40:13 +0900 Received: from lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr (lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr [157.159.103.217]) by smtp2.int-evry.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FFEE2FDF1; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 17:25:03 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: [16ng] Subnet Model Analysis for 16ng From: Pars Mutaf To: Syam Madanapalli In-Reply-To: <10e14db20609070801m17bd4e04r216aba3295a4e26e@mail.gmail.com> References: <10e14db20609060649i7bb5e7b2v767dfab60cdf2eb7@mail.gmail.com> <1157640161.14400.5.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> <10e14db20609070801m17bd4e04r216aba3295a4e26e@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: INT Evry Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 17:18:53 +0200 Message-Id: <1157642333.15061.16.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.4.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-INT-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-INT-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-INT-MailScanner-MCPCheck: X-INT-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-MailScanner-From: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr cc: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-BeenThere: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr List-Id: IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks <16ng.eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52f7a77164458f8c7b36b66787c853da On Thu, 2006-09-07 at 20:31 +0530, Syam Madanapalli wrote: > Hi Pars, > > On 9/7/06, Pars Mutaf wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Thanks to the contributors for this draft. > > I have a quick question. Have you decided > > that in 16ng: > > > > Subnet = paging area? > > No. > > And do you see any reason to tie these two things together? Hi Syam, No particular reason. (Subnet=PA is the simplest approach. But I agree that this may be too restrictive.) > If point-to-point subnet model is considered, there will be > essentially only one node in the paging area if subnet = paging area, > which I think is not effective way of doing the paging. :-) Thanks again for the draft pars > > Thanks, > Syam > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > pars > > > > > > On Wed, 2006-09-06 at 19:19 +0530, Syam Madanapalli wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > We made some analysis of subnet models for IPv6, > > > please review and comment. > > > I have attached the text document with this mail as > > > the draft has not been published yet. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Syam > > > _______________________________________________ > > > 16ng mailing list > > > 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr > > > http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng > > > > _______________________________________________ 16ng mailing list 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng From 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Thu Sep 07 12:07:37 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GLMPh-0004gG-AZ for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 12:07:37 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr ([163.239.23.36]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GLMPf-0005LX-ME for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 12:07:37 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (eeca16.sogang.ac.kr [127.0.0.1]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k87HMEIC018356; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 02:22:15 +0900 Received: from smtp2.int-evry.fr (smtp2.int-evry.fr [157.159.10.45]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k87HMBIB018353 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 02:22:12 +0900 Received: from lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr (lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr [157.159.103.217]) by smtp2.int-evry.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0254A2FD53; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 18:07:06 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: [16ng] Subnet Model Analysis for 16ng From: Pars Mutaf To: Behcet Sarikaya In-Reply-To: <20060907155238.61170.qmail@web60312.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060907155238.61170.qmail@web60312.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: INT Evry Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 18:00:55 +0200 Message-Id: <1157644855.16426.9.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.4.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-INT-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-INT-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-INT-MailScanner-MCPCheck: X-INT-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-MailScanner-From: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr cc: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-BeenThere: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr List-Id: IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks <16ng.eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a Hi, On Thu, 2006-09-07 at 08:52 -0700, Behcet Sarikaya wrote: > ==> I think that PA should be the coverage area under an AR (or > ASN-GW) which might > ==>include many BSs (this is from IP Paging point of definition). > ==>In the shared prefix model, this translates to subnet=PA, but in > the per-MS prefix model > ==>it does not, PA=all BS's under AR is probably better definition. OK. Paging is the responsibility of AR, in this case. Right? I'd like to ask another question if possible: Neighbor discovery = paging? That's my impression. But I'm not sure. If so, does the AR know the current BS of the dormant host? Thanks! pars _______________________________________________ 16ng mailing list 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng From 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Thu Sep 07 12:07:55 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GLMNY-0004QZ-Ns for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 12:05:24 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr ([163.239.23.36]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GLMBa-0001jD-Oo for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 11:53:04 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (eeca16.sogang.ac.kr [127.0.0.1]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k87H7jIC018320; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 02:07:47 +0900 Received: from web60312.mail.yahoo.com (web60312.mail.yahoo.com [209.73.178.135]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id k87H7gIB018317 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 02:07:43 +0900 Received: (qmail 61172 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Sep 2006 15:52:38 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=XR9CNCY4B+MdhqJHsmPlMriZ+e68KfuxHEyXoJPTYfV0bHcunxx8TXKhyPcSl5CSiPLOAf2fwhyTqykHjPqrz+9Yq9xMbTq2YzJfpB1cFMSFKfBSxHoARh7j4vqMzB3YTlfeWvTDWSS8/9+u9G+4WAaHEngAdNN6Q0LFBIcMTvU= ; Message-ID: <20060907155238.61170.qmail@web60312.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.129.211.52] by web60312.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 08:52:38 PDT Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 08:52:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Behcet Sarikaya Subject: Re: [16ng] Subnet Model Analysis for 16ng To: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr, Syam Madanapalli In-Reply-To: <1157642333.15061.16.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 cc: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-BeenThere: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Behcet Sarikaya List-Id: IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks <16ng.eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============95734051446088131==" Sender: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 7fa173a723009a6ca8ce575a65a5d813 --===============95734051446088131== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1118878517-1157644358=:56893" --0-1118878517-1157644358=:56893 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ----- Original Message ---- From: Pars Mutaf To: Syam Madanapalli Cc: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Sent: Thursday, September 7, 2006 10:18:53 AM Subject: Re: [16ng] Subnet Model Analysis for 16ng On Thu, 2006-09-07 at 20:31 +0530, Syam Madanapalli wrote: > Hi Pars, > > On 9/7/06, Pars Mutaf wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Thanks to the contributors for this draft. > > I have a quick question. Have you decided > > that in 16ng: > > > > Subnet = paging area? > > No. > > And do you see any reason to tie these two things together? Hi Syam, No particular reason. (Subnet=PA is the simplest approach. But I agree that this may be too restrictive.) > If point-to-point subnet model is considered, there will be > essentially only one node in the paging area if subnet = paging area, > which I think is not effective way of doing the paging. :-) ==> I think that PA should be the coverage area under an AR (or ASN-GW) which might ==>include many BSs (this is from IP Paging point of definition). ==>In the shared prefix model, this translates to subnet=PA, but in the per-MS prefix model ==>it does not, PA=all BS's under AR is probably better definition. Thanks again for the draft pars > > Thanks, > Syam > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > pars > > > > > > On Wed, 2006-09-06 at 19:19 +0530, Syam Madanapalli wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > We made some analysis of subnet models for IPv6, > > > please review and comment. > > > I have attached the text document with this mail as > > > the draft has not been published yet. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Syam > > > _______________________________________________ > > > 16ng mailing list > > > 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr > > > http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng > > > > ==> I checked in WiMAX documents, they use paging group which corresponds to paging area ==>In 802.16e it says that a BS may be a member of one or more paging groups ==>My 0.5 cents. --behcet --0-1118878517-1157644358=:56893 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii


----- Original Message ----
From: Pars Mutaf <pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr>
To: Syam Madanapalli <smadanapalli@gmail.com>
Cc: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr
Sent: Thursday, September 7, 2006 10:18:53 AM
Subject: Re: [16ng] Subnet Model Analysis for 16ng

On Thu, 2006-09-07 at 20:31 +0530, Syam Madanapalli wrote:
> Hi Pars,
>
> On 9/7/06, Pars Mutaf <pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Thanks to the contributors for this draft.
> > I have a quick question. Have you decided
> > that in 16ng:
> >
> > Subnet = paging area?
>
> No.
>
> And do you see any reason to tie these two things together?

Hi Syam,
No particular reason.

(Subnet=PA is the simplest approach. But I agree that this
may be too restrictive.)

> If point-to-point subnet model is considered, there will be
> essentially only one node in the paging area if subnet = paging area,
> which I think is not effective way of doing the paging.

:-)

==> I think that PA should be the coverage area under an AR (or ASN-GW) which might
==>include many BSs (this is from IP Paging point of definition).
==>In the shared prefix model, this translates to subnet=PA, but in the per-MS prefix model
==>it does not, PA=all BS's under AR is probably better definition.
Thanks again for the draft

pars

>
> Thanks,
> Syam
>
>
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > pars
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 2006-09-06 at 19:19 +0530, Syam Madanapalli wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > We made some analysis of subnet models for IPv6,
> > > please review and comment.
> > > I have attached the text document with this mail as
> > > the draft has not been published yet.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Syam
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > 16ng mailing list
> > > 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr
> > > http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng
> >
> >
==> I checked in WiMAX documents, they use paging group which corresponds to paging area
==>In 802.16e it says that a BS may be a member of one or more paging groups
==>My 0.5 cents.
 
--behcet
--0-1118878517-1157644358=:56893-- --===============95734051446088131== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________ 16ng mailing list 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng --===============95734051446088131==-- From 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Thu Sep 07 13:32:34 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GLNju-0000qh-LV for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 13:32:34 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr ([163.239.23.36]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GLNjt-0001E3-1C for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 13:32:34 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (eeca16.sogang.ac.kr [127.0.0.1]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k87Il9IC018565; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 03:47:11 +0900 Received: from e2.ny.us.ibm.com (e2.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.142]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k87Il6IB018562 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 03:47:07 +0900 Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e2.ny.us.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k87HW0XM027654 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 13:32:00 -0400 Received: from d01av04.pok.ibm.com (d01av04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.64]) k87HVx9U271638 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 13:31:59 -0400 Received: from d01av04.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) k87HVxZE012539 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 13:31:59 -0400 Received: from cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com (sig-9-76-154-248.mts.ibm.com [9.76.154.248])k87HVxaT012509; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 13:31:59 -0400 Received: from cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com (cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com [127.0.0.1]) k87HVrI2032144; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 13:31:55 -0400 Message-Id: <200609071731.k87HVrI2032144@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> To: "Syam Madanapalli" Subject: Re: [16ng] Subnet Model Analysis for 16ng In-reply-to: <10e14db20609060649i7bb5e7b2v767dfab60cdf2eb7@mail.gmail.com> References: <10e14db20609060649i7bb5e7b2v767dfab60cdf2eb7@mail.gmail.com> Comments: In-reply-to "Syam Madanapalli" message dated "Wed, 06 Sep 2006 19:19:02 +0530." Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 13:31:53 -0400 From: Thomas Narten cc: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-BeenThere: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks <16ng.eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 One question I have wrt this document. It is asserted (without justification) that "DAD is too expensive" and special extensions will be needed. Where is this justified and where is the exact problem with DAD explained? I assume the issue is that multicast is expensive or doesn't work. But then, ND in general is a problem also. But I don't see ND being listed as problematic, even though it is based on multicast. What am I missing? Thomas _______________________________________________ 16ng mailing list 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng From 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Thu Sep 07 21:45:40 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GLVR6-0000tf-FG for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 21:45:40 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr ([163.239.23.36]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GLVR4-0004YQ-RR for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 21:45:40 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (eeca16.sogang.ac.kr [127.0.0.1]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k8830OIC020028; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 12:00:27 +0900 Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.199]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k8830BIB020023 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 12:00:12 +0900 Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i11so194045nzh for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 18:45:02 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Ba4bhnQEHpVaPWEg86dcnNCO9IgICe5stQJkKtv9UwalGuUtAmQ5iGMkyoLx2xwPWPi3XMfsIZMATy9o/GiFhsKv+WvHqlADcHBuJsgfdwQx3MF2d6k8UkG+T/Y1NakZuPjdR6gBgzpnfmOmwkqeTi2ZJ90Qa4BgkOI5avYWbRA= Received: by 10.35.72.6 with SMTP id z6mr1791608pyk; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 18:45:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.10.9 with HTTP; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 18:45:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <10e14db20609071845t67282ab0racbe8e4415d24f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 07:15:01 +0530 From: "Syam Madanapalli" To: "Thomas Narten" Subject: Re: [16ng] Subnet Model Analysis for 16ng In-Reply-To: <200609071731.k87HVrI2032144@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <10e14db20609060649i7bb5e7b2v767dfab60cdf2eb7@mail.gmail.com> <200609071731.k87HVrI2032144@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> cc: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-BeenThere: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks <16ng.eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 Hello Thomas, On 9/7/06, Thomas Narten wrote: > One question I have wrt this document. It is asserted (without > justification) that "DAD is too expensive" and special extensions will > be needed. Where is this justified and where is the exact problem with > DAD explained? The next version of the document either contain the text or a reference for this. > > I assume the issue is that multicast is expensive or doesn't work. But > then, ND in general is a problem also. But I don't see ND being > listed as problematic, even though it is based on multicast. 802.16 MAC transport connection exists between MS and AR. (This is based on current WiMAX Network model). And there will be no such transport connection to any other MS. So it is possible to restrict ND between MS and AR, which does not require the multicast support. When prefix is being shared with multiple MSs, the DAD somehow should reach all the MS for which multicast support is required. Thanks, Syam > > What am I missing? > > Thomas > _______________________________________________ 16ng mailing list 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng From 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Fri Sep 08 00:39:25 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GLY9F-0001jA-QW for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2006 00:39:25 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr ([163.239.23.36]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GLY9E-0001nG-5s for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2006 00:39:25 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (eeca16.sogang.ac.kr [127.0.0.1]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k885sBIC020440; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 14:54:13 +0900 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.191]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k885ruIB020437 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 14:53:57 +0900 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h2so637782nfe for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 21:38:46 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=mLLzetFERMK9VZ22iGQCE+Z6XTRjwJ44v7iSsYQROrxi02vsSVSK/dGj/zS+rdfCWGZFVGHbNuDJNE3nRXhfchIG3PI7b4ZDh8GJBQGT4DqCsxqWVwO2y67HX8neiOO27IFnVbtLSiVR9uxVOLGzHf3OLlkW7E8pLs8zlCgpDQQ= Received: by 10.48.210.16 with SMTP id i16mr3609245nfg; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 21:38:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.48.206.3 with HTTP; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 21:38:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <92e919fb0609072138q1ab5f932k81e699a181c2f324@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 13:38:45 +0900 From: "JinHyeock Choi" To: "Thomas Narten" Subject: Re: [16ng] Subnet Model Analysis for 16ng In-Reply-To: <200609071731.k87HVrI2032144@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <10e14db20609060649i7bb5e7b2v767dfab60cdf2eb7@mail.gmail.com> <200609071731.k87HVrI2032144@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> cc: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-BeenThere: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks <16ng.eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Dear Thomas > I assume the issue is that multicast is expensive or doesn't work. yes. > But > then, ND in general is a problem also. But I don't see ND being > listed as problematic, even though it is based on multicast. In shared prefix model, we managed to run ND without multicast by imposing a few restrictions to simplify network. There is only one access router and an MN's (known) on-link neighbor is only its AR. All ND procedures (such as address resolution) can be performed between an MS and its AR without concerning other nodes except DAD. Thanks for your kind consideration. Best Regards JinHyeock _______________________________________________ 16ng mailing list 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng From 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Fri Sep 08 02:52:15 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GLaDn-0006I7-7m for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2006 02:52:15 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr ([163.239.23.36]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GLaDk-0003WQ-HY for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2006 02:52:15 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (eeca16.sogang.ac.kr [127.0.0.1]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k8881vIC020703; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 17:02:00 +0900 Received: from vms042pub.verizon.net (vms042pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.42]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k8881tIB020700 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 17:01:55 +0900 Received: from vms063.mailsrvcs.net ([192.168.1.4]) by vms042.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPA id <0J59000QHHGLHWU1@vms042.mailsrvcs.net> for 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr; Fri, 08 Sep 2006 01:45:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 129.55.200.20 ([129.55.200.20]) by vms063.mailsrvcs.net (Verizon Webmail) with HTTP; Fri, 08 Sep 2006 01:45:57 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 01:45:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Subject: Re: [16ng] Subnet Model Analysis for 16ng X-Originating-IP: [129.55.200.20] To: Syam Madanapalli , 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Message-id: <28074022.767531157697957909.JavaMail.root@vms063.mailsrvcs.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks <16ng.eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 Hi Syam, Thanks for writing this draft. I had a few comments and non-rhetorical questions, and do apologize if any of these things have already been answered/explained... In section 3.2, you correctly point out that IEEE 802.16 has defined no PPP CS. However (parentheses mine) in the sentence immediately preceding that one: "One way to accomplish this (p2p connection between BS and AR at PHY/MAC layers) is to run PPP on the link [7]." Until/unless IEEE 802.16 does define a PPP CS, I believe the above sentence should be removed (as well as those sentences in 3.2.1. that refer to PPP. In section 3.2.2., how is it that the "AR's link local address is taken into consideration when forming a link local address on the mobile node"? DAD traditionally relies upon a NS sent to the solicited node multicast address for the tentative address... How is this done given 802.16 doesn't have an uplink multicast facility? In section 3.2.4.9. I think a reference to RFC 3756 would be in order. It also seems that if IEEE 802.16 nodes form their modified EUI-64 IIDs based upon their 48-bit IEEE MAC addresses, the only way there could be an address collision would be if both the MN and the AR somehow had the same MAC address... Best Regards, Tim Rom 8:28 >From: Syam Madanapalli >Date: 2006/09/06 Wed AM 08:49:02 CDT >To: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr >Subject: [16ng] Subnet Model Analysis for 16ng >Hi, > >We made some analysis of subnet models for IPv6, >please review and comment. >I have attached the text document with this mail as >the draft has not been published yet. > >Thanks, >Syam > > >_______________________________________________ >16ng mailing list >16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr >http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng _______________________________________________ 16ng mailing list 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng From 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Fri Sep 08 03:06:27 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GLaRX-0003i1-0U for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2006 03:06:27 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr ([163.239.23.36]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GLaRS-0006P0-B6 for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2006 03:06:26 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (eeca16.sogang.ac.kr [127.0.0.1]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k888L5IC020749; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 17:21:07 +0900 Received: from mailout3.samsung.com (mailout3.samsung.com [203.254.224.33]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k888L3IB020746 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 17:21:04 +0900 Received: from ep_ms5_bk (mailout3.samsung.com [203.254.224.33]) by mailout3.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 2 (built Jul 14 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J5900LJQIDTUL@mailout3.samsung.com> for 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr; Fri, 08 Sep 2006 16:05:53 +0900 (KST) Received: from ep_spt03 (ms5.samsung.com [203.254.225.113]) by ms5.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 2 (built Jul 14 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J5900DRDIDTNK@ms5.samsung.com> for 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr; Fri, 08 Sep 2006 16:05:53 +0900 (KST) Content-return: prohibited Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 07:05:36 +0000 (GMT) From: Heejin Jang Subject: Re: [16ng] Subnet Model Analysis for 16ng To: Syam Madanapalli Message-id: <0J5900DREIDTNK@ms5.samsung.com> MIME-version: 1.0 MIME-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Msgkey: 20060908070553284@heejin.jang X-MTR: 20060908070553284@heejin.jang X-EPLocale: ko_KR.windows-1252 X-EPWebmail-Msg-Type: personal X-EPWebmail-Reply-Demand: 0 X-EPApproval-Locale: X-Generator: NamoMIME 6.0.0.3 cc: "16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr" <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> X-BeenThere: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: heejin.jang@samsung.com List-Id: IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks <16ng.eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; 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charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________ 16ng mailing list 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng --===============7999263364357434==-- From 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Fri Sep 08 04:08:12 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GLbPI-0004VI-Px for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2006 04:08:12 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr ([163.239.23.36]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GLbKv-00070a-EE for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2006 04:03:44 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (eeca16.sogang.ac.kr [127.0.0.1]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k889HrIC020882; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 18:17:53 +0900 Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.180]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k889HoIB020879 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 18:17:51 +0900 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id c63so637614pyc for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Fri, 08 Sep 2006 01:02:38 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Gpua2AwCl+nhNTYIE5o0RwpsLJqXOH3UL8iLlSsqpuZy8cDJz7MXv4IeQVc/3VSCk2tyq84GPNoIgT6gcij5whcxsrqyDU1CMfuncGGtGXlBRscbpV5Vaxx64emUb32REITg+7XDlR4ofeJZdTMuxyM1kKPXyVbZkTPeikppj3Q= Received: by 10.35.50.1 with SMTP id c1mr2379556pyk; Fri, 08 Sep 2006 01:02:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.10.9 with HTTP; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 01:02:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <10e14db20609080102g216b6f20ya97a9a4fbcad903f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 13:32:37 +0530 From: "Syam Madanapalli" To: heejin.jang@samsung.com Subject: Re: [16ng] Subnet Model Analysis for 16ng In-Reply-To: <0J5900DREIDTNK@ms5.samsung.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <0J5900DREIDTNK@ms5.samsung.com> cc: "16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr" <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> X-BeenThere: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks <16ng.eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: b7b9551d71acde901886cc48bfc088a6 Hi Heejin, > 1. > In case of shared & ethernet-like model, the periodical RAs may > make all of the dormant nodes awake at the same time, which > will cause 802.16e signaling messges for paging and power consumption of all > nodes > just for getting RAs. > So, how about inserting to 3.1.4.7& 3.3.4.7 (changes on router > implementation) > so that RA's lifetime could be set to infinite value, or, 0xffff? The current maximum possible interval for periodic RAs is 30 minutes. The infinite value has not been defined for the router lifetime. You may be interested to look at the following draft http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-madanapalli-ipv6-periodic-rtr-advts-00.txt And there is a good discussion going on in IPv6 WG mailing list, no conclusion has been made yet. > 2. > in 3.2.4.5 > "The AR can simply send link local multicast, for example unsolicited > Router Advertisements, and the BS can filter them out" > => If AR sends RAs to announce some parameters such as the advertised > prefix, > it should not be filtered by BS. How BS can differentiate this case? Yes, I think it should be corrected. > > So, I prefer that AR advertises RAs only when necessary without > periodical RAs, and BS allows RAs. The current IPv6 spec requires periodic RAs. Also removing periodic RAs altogether may have adverse effect if the link contains many hosts. May be we should look for increasing the interval. > 3. > > in 3.1.4.4. > > "All MSs send the packets to the AR irrespective of the destination and > scope of the IPv6 address." > > => There could be a loopback message or decapsulation within MN such as > MIPv6. > > "MSs send all the packets which are not destined to itself to the AR > irrespective of the destination > > and scope of the IPv6 address." may be better. Yep, thanks. Syam > > > > Some comments could be considered when solution document is made. > > Thanks. > > > > -- Regards, > > > Heejin Jang > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ 16ng mailing list 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng From 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Fri Sep 08 04:12:45 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GLbTh-0007JB-B2 for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2006 04:12:45 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr ([163.239.23.36]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GLbFj-0005Rx-Nf for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2006 03:58:21 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (eeca16.sogang.ac.kr [127.0.0.1]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k889DAIC020864; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 18:13:12 +0900 Received: from mailout3.samsung.com (mailout3.samsung.com [203.254.224.33]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k889D9IB020861 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 18:13:09 +0900 Received: from ep_mmp1 (mailout3.samsung.com [203.254.224.33]) by mailout3.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 2 (built Jul 14 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J5900LTDKSLUL@mailout3.samsung.com> for 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr; Fri, 08 Sep 2006 16:57:57 +0900 (KST) Received: from your655e9d6f61 ([168.219.198.109])14 2004)) 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr; Fri, 08 Sep 2006 16:57:57 +0900 (KST) Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 16:57:57 +0900 From: Soohong Daniel Park To: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Message-id: <03b801c6d31c$7f54d990$6dc6dba8@your655e9d6f61> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ks_c_5601-1987 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Subject: [16ng] Interim final agenda X-BeenThere: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks <16ng.eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: d8ae4fd88fcaf47c1a71c804d04f413d Final agenda for the interim... o 1st Interim - Mannheim, Gernamy o September, 12nd - 13rd ======================================== AGENDA o 12nd, Thesday 1000 - 1030 Coffee break & socializing 1030 - 1230 Opening session - Welcome chairs - Agenda bashing chairs - WG status and milestone review chairs - Informative reports + WiMAX IPv6 activity Jinhyeock Choi + 802.16 related activities (if any) TBD - IPv6 deployment scenario v6ops document review Myungki Shin - IPv6 subnet model design team report Syam Madanapalli 1230 - 1330 Lunch 1330 - 1530 Technical session I - IPv6 subnet model design team report Syam Madanapalli 1530 - 1600 Coffee break 1600 - 1800 Technical session II - IPv6 solution discussion - I + IPv6 shared prefix model over IPv6CS Syam Madanapalli + IPv6 unique prefix model over IPv6CS TBD + IPv6 over EthernetCS TBD 1900 - 2200 Social o 13rd, Wednesday 0900 - 1200 Technical session III - IPv6 solution discussion - II 1200 - 1300 Lunch 1300 - 1430 Technical session IV - IPv6 solution discussion - III - Relevant discussion or presentation if any + IPv4 over EthernetCS Max Riegel 1430 - 1500 Coffee break 1500 - 1600 Closing session - Wrap-up chairs + Recommendation on subnet model for IPv6 CS chairs + Next step chairs ======================================== Daniel (Soohong Daniel Park) Mobile Convergence Laboratory, SAMSUNG Electronics. _______________________________________________ 16ng mailing list 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng From 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Fri Sep 08 08:36:31 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GLfax-0006FF-Dn for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2006 08:36:31 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr ([163.239.23.36]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GLfav-00041d-OG for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2006 08:36:31 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (eeca16.sogang.ac.kr [127.0.0.1]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k88DpBIC021451; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 22:51:16 +0900 Received: from e5.ny.us.ibm.com (e5.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.145]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k88DowIB021448 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 22:51:09 +0900 Received: from d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (d01relay02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.234]) by e5.ny.us.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k88CZiMD030697 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 08:35:44 -0400 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (d01av02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.216]) k88CZiAn252180 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 08:35:44 -0400 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) k88CZiee015285 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 08:35:44 -0400 Received: from cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com (sig-9-65-213-43.mts.ibm.com [9.65.213.43])k88CZhZr015260; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 08:35:43 -0400 Received: from cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com (cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com [127.0.0.1]) k88CZhrB027220; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 08:35:44 -0400 Message-Id: <200609081235.k88CZhrB027220@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> To: "JinHyeock Choi" Subject: Re: [16ng] Subnet Model Analysis for 16ng In-reply-to: <92e919fb0609072138q1ab5f932k81e699a181c2f324@mail.gmail.com> References: <10e14db20609060649i7bb5e7b2v767dfab60cdf2eb7@mail.gmail.com> <200609071731.k87HVrI2032144@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <92e919fb0609072138q1ab5f932k81e699a181c2f324@mail.gmail.com> Comments: In-reply-to "JinHyeock Choi" message dated "Fri, 08 Sep 2006 13:38:45 +0900." Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 08:35:43 -0400 From: Thomas Narten cc: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-BeenThere: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks <16ng.eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c > In shared prefix model, we managed to run ND without multicast by > imposing a few restrictions to simplify network. There is only one > access router and an MN's (known) on-link neighbor is only its AR. All > ND procedures (such as address resolution) can be performed between an > MS and its AR without concerning other nodes except DAD. I think it would be helpful to have subsections in the document that explain how ND works (or is assumed to work, once (current unstated!) assumptions are made) in each case. Thomas _______________________________________________ 16ng mailing list 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng From 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Fri Sep 08 14:29:48 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GLl6q-0008La-2K for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2006 14:29:48 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr ([163.239.23.36]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GLl6l-0007Hf-Dr for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2006 14:29:48 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (eeca16.sogang.ac.kr [127.0.0.1]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k88JiGIC022628; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 04:44:20 +0900 Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.176]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k88JiDIB022625 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 04:44:14 +0900 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id c63so843863pyc for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Fri, 08 Sep 2006 11:28:56 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=ShkvGiqvemq/EFb6j8GnGCA6vJhyOyEzj5qsx7LswWjBO5Nvmd8/BrSmlS1uXiyzKh4tBOaGnxoDH7dBxm6J+gCTAsMdBxwtpTImWWGA6iE6N8E9GPzMzgeTRD/pnhvYpTU1GZ3/1vy8BzfjuXaJIjCu9xrSMK7h9sRRxrjPEGI= Received: by 10.35.72.1 with SMTP id z1mr3423012pyk; Fri, 08 Sep 2006 11:28:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.10.9 with HTTP; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 11:28:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <10e14db20609081128q32c84792h9933e51b05295c64@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 23:58:56 +0530 From: "Syam Madanapalli" To: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Subject: Re: [16ng] Subnet Model Analysis for 16ng In-Reply-To: <200609081235.k88CZhrB027220@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <10e14db20609060649i7bb5e7b2v767dfab60cdf2eb7@mail.gmail.com> <200609071731.k87HVrI2032144@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <92e919fb0609072138q1ab5f932k81e699a181c2f324@mail.gmail.com> <200609081235.k88CZhrB027220@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> X-BeenThere: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks <16ng.eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea Link to the draft: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-madanapalli-16ng-subnet-model-analysis-00.txt _______________________________________________ 16ng mailing list 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng From 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Sat Sep 09 00:03:52 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GLu4O-0005WT-6k for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 09 Sep 2006 00:03:52 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr ([163.239.23.36]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GLu4M-0001x0-53 for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 09 Sep 2006 00:03:52 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (eeca16.sogang.ac.kr [127.0.0.1]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k895IXIC023849; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 14:18:35 +0900 Received: from szxga01-in.huawei.com (szxga01-in.huawei.com [61.144.161.53]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k895ITIB023846 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 14:18:30 +0900 Received: from huawei.com (szxga01-in [172.24.2.3]) by szxga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J5B00JBN4R6LM@szxga01-in.huawei.com> for 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr; Sat, 09 Sep 2006 12:06:42 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.1.18]) by szxga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J5B00BL94R6I6@szxga01-in.huawei.com> for 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr; Sat, 09 Sep 2006 12:06:42 +0800 (CST) Received: from q52443 ([10.164.46.108]) by szxml03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTPA id <0J5B00DZX4SSVN@szxml03-in.huawei.com> for 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr; Sat, 09 Sep 2006 12:07:44 +0800 (CST) Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2006 12:03:03 +0800 From: qinxia Subject: RE: [16ng] Subnet Model Analysis for 16ng In-reply-to: <1157644855.16426.9.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> To: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr, "'Behcet Sarikaya'" Message-id: <001a01c6d3c4$d981c8d0$6c2ea40a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-index: AcbSmcCdyvbLgSvTRZKIXxkN9TWkKQBKfJRg cc: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-BeenThere: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks <16ng.eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: f607d15ccc2bc4eaf3ade8ffa8af02a0 Hello all, IMHO, The overlap between Paging area and the coverage area under a AR does not mean " Neighbor discovery = paging?" A relay Paging controller function may be provided by an AR(ASN-GW), so, I think, the AR may know the dormant hosts. If I miss something or misunderstanding something, let me know, Thanks. BR Alice > -----Original Message----- > From: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr > [mailto:16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr] On Behalf Of Pars Mutaf > Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 12:01 AM > To: Behcet Sarikaya > Cc: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr > Subject: Re: [16ng] Subnet Model Analysis for 16ng > > Hi, > > On Thu, 2006-09-07 at 08:52 -0700, Behcet Sarikaya wrote: > > > ==> I think that PA should be the coverage area under an AR (or > > ASN-GW) which might > > ==>include many BSs (this is from IP Paging point of definition). > > ==>In the shared prefix model, this translates to subnet=PA, but in > > the per-MS prefix model ==>it does not, PA=all BS's under AR is > > probably better definition. > > > OK. Paging is the responsibility of AR, in this case. Right? > > I'd like to ask another question if > possible: > > Neighbor discovery = paging? > > That's my impression. But I'm not sure. > > If so, does the AR know the current BS of the dormant host? > > Thanks! > pars > > _______________________________________________ > 16ng mailing list > 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr > http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng > _______________________________________________ 16ng mailing list 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng From 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Sun Sep 10 11:25:32 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GMRBc-00081N-1L for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 10 Sep 2006 11:25:32 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr ([163.239.23.36]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GMRBW-0005XO-7w for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 10 Sep 2006 11:25:32 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (eeca16.sogang.ac.kr [127.0.0.1]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k8AGeFIC010167; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 01:40:21 +0900 Received: 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V6.00.3790.2663 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Sep 2006 15:28:15.0066 (UTC) FILETIME=[BBDAE3A0:01C6D4ED] Subject: [16ng] new I-D: "draft-jeon-ipv6-over-ieee802.16-ethcs-00.txt" X-BeenThere: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: =?ks_c_5601-1987?B?wPzIq7yu?= List-Id: IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks <16ng.eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Scan-Signature: d424907374faffed8e9e11e94f671eb2 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_1609_01C6D538.F46B37B0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_160A_01C6D538.F46B37B0" ------=_NextPart_001_160A_01C6D538.F46B37B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ks_c_5601-1987" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 ------=_NextPart_001_160A_01C6D538.F46B37B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ks_c_5601-1987" 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-0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (eeca16.sogang.ac.kr [127.0.0.1]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k8BJGjIC014162; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 04:16:50 +0900 Received: from massilia.int-evry.fr (massilia.int-evry.fr [157.159.10.13]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k8BJGeIB014159 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 04:16:42 +0900 Received: from massilia.int-evry.fr (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) k8BI0m99018749; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 20:00:48 +0200 Received: (from apache@localhost) by massilia.int-evry.fr (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id k8BI0k8a018748; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 20:00:46 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: massilia.int-evry.fr: apache set sender to Pars.Mutaf@int-evry.fr using -f Received: from lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr (lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr [157.159.103.217]) by imp.int-evry.fr (IMP) with HTTP for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 20:00:46 +0200 Message-ID: <1157997646.4505a44e30e48@imp.int-evry.fr> Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 20:00:46 +0200 From: Pars MUTAF To: qinxia Subject: RE: [16ng] Subnet Model Analysis for 16ng References: <001a01c6d3c4$d981c8d0$6c2ea40a@china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <001a01c6d3c4$d981c8d0$6c2ea40a@china.huawei.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.5 X-Originating-IP: 157.159.103.217 cc: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-BeenThere: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks <16ng.eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b7b9551d71acde901886cc48bfc088a6 Hi Alice, Personally, I don't know currently what kind of paging service will be provided in 16ng. But, a priori, I would vote for ND-based paging. It can be reused for future wireless access protocol perhaps. Regards, pars Selon qinxia : > Hello all, > > IMHO, The overlap between Paging area and the coverage area under > a AR does not mean > > " Neighbor discovery = paging?" > > A relay Paging controller function may be provided by an AR(ASN-GW), so, I > think, the AR may know the dormant hosts. > > If I miss something or misunderstanding something, let me know, Thanks. > > BR > Alice > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr > > [mailto:16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr] On Behalf Of Pars Mutaf > > Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 12:01 AM > > To: Behcet Sarikaya > > Cc: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr > > Subject: Re: [16ng] Subnet Model Analysis for 16ng > > > > Hi, > > > > On Thu, 2006-09-07 at 08:52 -0700, Behcet Sarikaya wrote: > > > > > ==> I think that PA should be the coverage area under an AR (or > > > ASN-GW) which might > > > ==>include many BSs (this is from IP Paging point of definition). > > > ==>In the shared prefix model, this translates to subnet=PA, but in > > > the per-MS prefix model ==>it does not, PA=all BS's under AR is > > > probably better definition. > > > > > > OK. Paging is the responsibility of AR, in this case. Right? > > > > I'd like to ask another question if > > possible: > > > > Neighbor discovery = paging? > > > > That's my impression. But I'm not sure. > > > > If so, does the AR know the current BS of the dormant host? > > > > Thanks! > > pars > > > > _______________________________________________ > > 16ng mailing list > > 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr > > http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. _______________________________________________ 16ng mailing list 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng From 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Mon Sep 11 21:12:51 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GMwpX-0000II-Vb for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 21:12:51 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr ([163.239.23.36]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GMwpW-0003cl-8U for 16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 21:12:51 -0400 Received: from eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (eeca16.sogang.ac.kr [127.0.0.1]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k8C2SLIC014998; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 11:28:24 +0900 Received: from szxga01-in.huawei.com (szxga01-in.huawei.com [61.144.161.53]) by eeca16.sogang.ac.kr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k8C2SIIB014995 for <16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr>; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 11:28:18 +0900 Received: from huawei.com (szxga01-in [172.24.2.3]) by szxga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J5G002KMGUNOM@szxga01-in.huawei.com> for 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:15:59 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.1.18]) by szxga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J5G00DBNGUM5O@szxga01-in.huawei.com> for 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:15:59 +0800 (CST) Received: from q52443 ([10.164.46.108]) by szxml03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTPA id <0J5G00IFCGWD8A@szxml03-in.huawei.com> for 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:17:04 +0800 (CST) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:12:17 +0800 From: qinxia Subject: RE: [16ng] Subnet Model Analysis for 16ng In-reply-to: <1157997646.4505a44e30e48@imp.int-evry.fr> To: "'Pars MUTAF'" Message-id: <001701c6d608$7d445330$6c2ea40a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT cc: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-BeenThere: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks <16ng.eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: b22590c27682ace61775ee7b453b40d3 Thread-index: AcbVzLTMvB8HEGSbSLOSJL7bsrTYTgAO2IKQ Hello Pars, Could you kindly introduce "ND-based paging" in WiMAX? Or could ND-based paging be used in WLAN and so on, as you say, it looks like a general paging appoach? Thanks BR Alice > -----Original Message----- > From: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr > [mailto:16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr] On Behalf Of Pars MUTAF > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 2:01 AM > To: qinxia > Cc: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr > Subject: RE: [16ng] Subnet Model Analysis for 16ng > > > List-Unsubscribe: , > > List-Archive: > List-Help: > List-Id: IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks <16ng.eeca16.sogang.ac.kr> > > > Hi Alice, > > Personally, I don't know currently what kind of paging > service will be provided in 16ng. > > But, a priori, I would vote for ND-based paging. > > It can be reused for future wireless access protocol perhaps. > > Regards, > pars > > > Selon qinxia : > > > Hello all, > > > > IMHO, The overlap between Paging area and the > coverage area > > under a AR does not mean > > > > " Neighbor discovery = paging?" > > > > A relay Paging controller function may be provided by an > AR(ASN-GW), > > so, I think, the AR may know the dormant hosts. > > > > If I miss something or misunderstanding something, let me > know, Thanks. > > > > BR > > Alice > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: 16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr > > > [mailto:16ng-bounces@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr] On Behalf Of Pars Mutaf > > > Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 12:01 AM > > > To: Behcet Sarikaya > > > Cc: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr > > > Subject: Re: [16ng] Subnet Model Analysis for 16ng > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > On Thu, 2006-09-07 at 08:52 -0700, Behcet Sarikaya wrote: > > > > > > > ==> I think that PA should be the coverage area under an AR (or > > > > ASN-GW) which might > > > > ==>include many BSs (this is from IP Paging point of > definition). > > > > ==>In the shared prefix model, this translates to > subnet=PA, but > > > > in the per-MS prefix model ==>it does not, PA=all BS's > under AR is > > > > probably better definition. > > > > > > > > > OK. Paging is the responsibility of AR, in this case. Right? > > > > > > I'd like to ask another question if > > > possible: > > > > > > Neighbor discovery = paging? > > > > > > That's my impression. But I'm not sure. > > > > > > If so, does the AR know the current BS of the dormant host? > > > > > > Thanks! > > > pars > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > 16ng mailing list > > > 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr > > > http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > _______________________________________________ > 16ng mailing list > 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr > http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng > _______________________________________________ 16ng mailing list 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng