Subject: RE: [6lowpan] new 6lowpan charter

From: "Schumacher Christian Peter Pii" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 19:48:37 +0100

Based on received feedback, I have a new suggestion for charter scope.

--- start of scope --- 

Scope of 6lowpan: 

Produce "Optimization of the Adhoc Routing Protocol for 6lowpans"
to apply an existing MANET Protocol to LoWPANs.

Produce "Optimization of the Neighbor Discovery Protocol for 6lowpans" 
to define how to apply the existing Neighbor Discovery protocol in a 
6lowpan. 

Produce "IPv6 over Low Power WPAN Security Analysis" to define the 
assumptions for a security model for 6lowpan. This includes analysis 
of threats, identify types of devices and define the levels of trust 
between these devices. 

Produce "6lowpan Co-existence with other Networks" to define how to 
co-exist with other networks. This includes analysis of how to survive 
interference caused by IEEE 802.11 based networks, and investigate how
to recognize and co-exist with other networks based on IEEE 802.15.4. 

As such, the working group may also work on informational documents for
service discovery, scalability of 6lowpan (routing and addressing), 
mobility issues, naming service for mesh layer and gateway architecture.

The working group will reuse existing specifications whenever 
reasonable and possible. 

The working group will also serve as a venue for ongoing discussions 
on other topics related to the more complete list outlined above. 
Additional related milestones may be added in the future via a 
rechartering operation. 

Note: As may be obvious from its official name above, this particular 
working group will not work on IPv4 over IEEE 802.15.4 specifications. 
Given the limitations of the target devices, dual-stack deployments 
are not practical. Because of its higher potential for header 
compression, its support for the huge number of devices expected and 
of cleanly built-in features such as address autoconfiguration, IPv6 
is the exclusive focus of the working group. 

--- end of scope --- 

Please provide feedback.

Regards
Christian

PS: The original charter can be found at
http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/6lowpan-charter.html 

-----Original Message-----
From: Soohong Daniel Park [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: 8. marts 2006 20:13
To: Schumacher Christian Peter Pii; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [6lowpan] new 6lowpan charter

new 6lowpan charterI believe 6lowpan adhoc routing protocol must be
included into our rechartering more specific than
now. It is one of urgent task toward 6LoWPAN
Current text is just copy-and-paste from the
existing charter as follows:

"As such, the working group may also work on an 
informational document to show how to apply an 
existing MANET protocol to LoWPANs (e.g., 
AODV, OLSR, DYMO, etc)."

So, my suggestion is as follows:

Produce "Optimization of the Adhoc Routing Protocol 
for 6lowpans" to apply an existing MANET Protocol 
to LoWPANs.

Thanks in advance.

Daniel (Soohong Daniel Park)
Mobile Convergence Laboratory, SAMSUNG Electronics.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Schumacher Christian Peter Pii 
To: [email-masked] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 8:09 PM
Subject: [6lowpan] new 6lowpan charter

Hi. 
During the 6lowpan interim meeting in January, the working group
discussed possible topics for a future rechartering of 6lowpan. Based on
available information from that meeting I've compiled the following
text, which is an edited version of the scope present in the current
6lowpan charter. Feedback is appreciated. 
--- start of scope --- 
Scope of 6lowpan: 
Produce "Optimization of the Neighbor Discovery Protocol for 6lowpans" 
to define how to apply the existing Neighbor Discovery protocol in a 
6lowpan. 
Produce "IPv6 over Low Power WPAN Security Analysis" to define the 
assumptions for a security model for 6lowpan. This includes analysis 
of threats, identify types of devices and define the levels of trust 
between these devices. 
Produce "6lowpan Co-existence with other Networks" to define how to 
co-exist with other networks. This includes analysis of how to survive 
interference caused by IEEE 802.11 based networks, and investigate how
to 
recognize and co-exist with other networks based on IEEE 802.15.4. 
As such, the working group may also work on an informational document 
to show how to apply an existing MANET protocol to LoWPANs (e.g., 
AODV, OLSR, DYMO, etc). 
The working group will reuse existing specifications whenever 
reasonable and possible. 
The working group will also serve as a venue for ongoing discussions 
on other topics related to the more complete list outlined above. 
Additional related milestones may be added in the future via a 
rechartering operation. 
Note: As may be obvious from its official name above, this particular 
working group will not work on IPv4 over IEEE 802.15.4 specifications. 
Given the limitations of the target devices, dual-stack deployments 
are not practical. Because of its higher potential for header 
compression, its support for the huge number of devices expected and 
of cleanly built-in features such as address autoconfiguration, IPv6 
is the exclusive focus of the working group. 
--- end of scope --- 
Looking forward to receive your feedback. 
Regards 
Christian 
PS: The original charter can be found at
http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/6lowpan-charter.html 

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---

From: "Ki-Hyung Kim" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:05:59 +0900

>mobility issues, naming service for mesh layer and gateway architecture.

Christian, let me add more details in terms of our rechartering
deliberables into the listed items as follows;

Produce "Service Discovery Protocol for 6LoWPAN" to define how
to discover, control and maintain services provided by 6lowpan devices.

Produce "Scalability of 6LoWPAN" to define a routing protocol
for the lare number of devices which is expected to be deployed in
6LoWPAN while considering the limited capabilities of the devices
(low power, limited memory space, and small packet size).

Produce "Interoperability of 6LoWPAN" to define the gateway
Architecture between 6LoWPAN and external IPv6 networks.
All comment are highly welcome.

__
Ki-Hyung Kim
Associate Professor
Division of Information and Computer Eng.,
Ajou University, Suwon, Korea 442-749
Tel:+82-31-219-2433, http://ilab.ajou.ac.kr
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---

From: "Samita Chakrabarti" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:13:19 -0800

Hi Christian:

Thanks for  bringing up the charter discussion. My comments are in-line.

> to apply an existing MANET Protocol to LoWPANs.

Agree.

> to define how to apply the existing Neighbor Discovery protocol in a

Agree.

> of threats, identify types of devices and define the levels of trust

I think this document would be an informational document. In addition to
analysis of threats, it would be useful to discuss what level of security to
be applied in
different level of communications such as in application-layer, network
layer or link-layer.

> to recognize and co-exist with other networks based on IEEE 802.15.4.

This might be another useful guideline to the community. But I'd think, it
as a
low priority item.

> service discovery, scalability of 6lowpan (routing and addressing),

I am not sure about importance of scalability in 6lowPan. I thought, we
introduced
IPv6 to solve the scalability problem. If we use 64bit UID address scheme
for
MAC address, then I don't see a scalability issue.
The 16bit MAC addresses could be treated as local addresses - same way as
IPv6 treats link-local addresses - we can simply decide not to route those
addresses outside local PAN and use 64bit unique address for global
communication end-to-end. Adding 16bit address support for inter-pan
communication will add much complexity.

Thanks,
-Samita

---

From: "Ian Chakeres" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:13:09 -0800

Comments - inline.

> to apply an existing MANET Protocol to LoWPANs.

I do not think the MANET protocols should be re-engineered in 6lowpan.
I believe that a L2 implementation of minimal DYMO can fulfil 6lowpans
requirements.

I think packet optimizations are acceptable to explore, but protocol
behavior should not be changed.

I think that the charter should state exactly what type of
"optimizations" are to be explored.

> to define how to apply the existing Neighbor Discovery protocol in a

Again, I think we should reuse IPv6 ND or use a MANET hello protocol
(OLSRv2 or SMF neighborhood discovery seem suitable). Again, packet
formats could be optimized, but the protocol behavior should not.

---

From: Carsten Bormann <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:44:21 -0600

Hi Ian,

> "optimizations" are to be explored.

Good point. "Optimization" is highly ambiguous.
No, we don't want to create another protocol; in other environments,  
what we are trying to do would have been called "profiling", i.e.,  
defining a subset that is interoperable in the specific domain.

> formats could be optimized, but the protocol behavior should not.

Here I'm not so sure.  I wouldn't want to rule out new protocol  
development in this space.
What makes you confident that either ND as is or the MANET protocols  
will fit the bill?

Gruesse, Carsten

---

From: Soohong Daniel Park <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:23:57 -0600

>I believe that a L2 implementation of minimal DYMO can fulfil 6lowpans

*minimal* is what Optimization means.

---

From: "Ian Chakeres" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:12:58 -0800

Comments in line.

> What makes you confident that either ND as is or the MANET protocols

I am not an expert in ND or 6lowpan, but my intuition says that an
existing algorithm can be harnessed to accomplish ND or neighborhood
discovery in 6lowpan with little  modification, except for the packet
format of course.

Ian  Chakeres