Subject: RE: [16ng] Submission of draft-riegel-16ng-ip-over-eth-over-80216-00.txt

From: "Riegel, Maximilian" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 17:57:33 +0200

Thanks for the pointer to IEEE802.16k. I know about this effort, but it
addresses 'only' the plain bridging function, not the specific functions
necessary for supporting transmission of IP packets without wasting too
much resources.
 
Please be aware that I included section 4.1.1 _for information_ to
provide the reader of the document a better insight into the specifics
for processing IP packets over IEEE802.16. It is right, 4.1.1 belongs
into the scope of IEEE802.
 
And please note, that the I-D is aimed as the initial document mainly
providing the outline and expecting inputs from other contributors.
There is content missing on IPv6 specific packet processing (to be done
next), and there is a huge open section on IPv4 and IPv6 over Ethernet
with IEEE802.16 multicast support.
 
### more contributors kindly appreciated ###, and
### much more work to be done ###
 
Bye
Max

________________________________

From: [email-masked]
[mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Behcet Sarikaya
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 4:59 PM
To: Rina Nathaniel
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [16ng] Submission of
draft-riegel-16ng-ip-over-eth-over-80216-00.txt

----- Original Message ----
From: Rina Nathaniel <[email-masked]>
To: "Riegel, Maximilian" <[email-masked]>; Syam
Madanapalli <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 5:44:36 AM
Subject: RE: [16ng] Submission of
draft-riegel-16ng-ip-over-eth-over-80216 -00.txt

Max,

In IEEE, 802.16k WG is working on bridging see the links below.
This WG will write an amendment to IEEE 802.1D-2004 (MAC Bridges) that
explain bridging with 802.16.
http://ieee802.org/16/pubs/80216k.html
http://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/16/docs/06/S80216-06_001.pdf

Rina Nathaniel, 
CTO group

==>
This was my impression as well, Max's draft reads like a Layer 2
document so it probably belongs to an IEEE WG (maybe 802.16k). It
certainly does not read like RFC 2464.
It seems like Sec. 4.1.3 is the only relevant section which is quite
short right now.
Another suggestion I have is to include some discussion on Bernard's
draft.

Regards,

--behcet
-----Original Message-----
From: Riegel, Maximilian [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 11:33 AM
To: Syam Madanapalli
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [16ng] Submission of
draft-riegel-16ng-ip-over-eth-over-80216-00.txt

Syam,

According to the scope and name of the working group (16ng) my intention
was to keep the draft agnostic to a particular access network
architecture and to focus on the generic 802.16 protocol architecture.
If you replace 'BS' in the specification part of the I-D by the WiMAX
term 'ASN', you will get an imagination, how the specification fits into
the WiMAX network architecture. As WiMAX knows about a couple of
different models for the functional split between BS and ASN-GW
(including no split at all) the bridging function may be implemented in
either place depending on the particular ASN profile and the type and
granularity of the GRE tunnels between BS and ASN-GW.

Assuming that the SS is some kind of CPE with an integrated Ethernet
bridge (switch) for connecting hosts behind the SS, the bridge at the BS
side does not get knowledge about a particular MAC address attached to
the bridge in the SS prior to the first packet coming upstream. Only in
the special case of a 'single host' terminal, the bridge can learn the
MAC address out of the establishment of the MAC connection.

Bye
Max

-----Original Message-----
From: Syam Madanapalli [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 5:01 AM
To: Riegel, Maximilian
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [16ng] Submission of
draft-riegel-16ng-ip-over-eth-over-80216-00.txt

Hello Max,

A couple of questions:

1. It is not clear how this draft fits into the WiMAX Network model.
e.g. In WiMAX all the packets travel to ASN GW before being delivered
to destination i.e. the MAC transport connection is extended all the way
to ASN GW. So I am wondering how this bridging functionality fits into
this kind of architecture.

2. Why cannot the bridge learn the MAC addresses from the establishment
of
802.16 MAC connections?

Thank you,
Syam

On 6/19/06, Riegel, Maximilian <[email-masked]> wrote:
> Dear Editor,
>
> I would like to submit the individual I-D
> draft-riegel-16ng-ip-over-eth-over-80216-00.txt aimed for discussion
in
> the 16ng BOF/WG.
>
>        Transmission of IP Packets over Ethernet over IEEE802.16
>            draft-riegel-16ng-ip-over-eth-over-80216-00.txt
>
> Abstract
>
>   This document describes the special behavior of the Ethernet
>   emulation on top of IEEE802.16 to efficiently support the
>   transmission of IPv4 as well as IPv6 packets over IEEE802.16 radio
>   links.
>   Due to resource constraints of radio transmission systems and the
>   limitations of the IEEE802.16 MAC layer for the emulation of
>   Ethernet, the transmission of IP over an emulated LAN on top of
>   IEEE802.16 may considerably benefit by adding IP specific support
>   functions within the Ethernet emulation on top of IEEE802.16.
>
>
>
> Please fetch the full document by
>
http://www.max.franken.de/ids/draft-riegel-16ng-ip-over-eth-over-80216-0
> 0.txt
>
> Kind regards
> Max
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 16ng mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng
>

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---

From: "Riegel, Maximilian" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 00:46:23 +0200

Syam,

For IPoETH CS the Dest MAC address  as well as Src MAC address are
fields which can be taken into account for classification, but if no
values are assigned in the classification rule, then these fields are
irrelevant for classification.
This can be used for enabling that multiple hosts can be attached to a
SS by an Ethernet switch.
Some intelligence in the SS blocking all packets with Dst MAC addresses
belonging to one of the hosts attached to the switch clearly would
enhance efficiency.

Bye
Max

-----Original Message-----
From: Syam Madanapalli [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 1:01 PM
To: Riegel, Maximilian
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [16ng] Submission of

> granularity of the GRE tunnels between BS and ASN-GW.

Looks good to me. And may be we can add appendix for explaining
how this specification should be used in WiMAX, as the WIMAX Forum
is our immediate customer.

> MAC address out of the establishment of the MAC connection.

In 802.16 every packet/frame is transmitted on a connection. Each
connection
has a set of identifiers. For IP over Eth CS, I think MAC address is a
mandatory
classifier. I am not sure how the hosts behind the CPE can use their
MAC address for Ethernet Frame on the air link without a connection
being
setup for that particular host. Can we setup a connection with wild card
for the
MAC Address?

Thanks,
Syam